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樓主: 海大富

吳式太極專題: 吳家太極拳在香港的傳播, 拳式功理法討論

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 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-5-12 06:46:04 | 顯示全部樓層
wutaiji2 寫到:

whether the title door-man, disciple, student is apt is one thing. Master Chen Tin Hung [CTH] did learn for significant time from wu dai kwai [wdk]
CTH is great fighter and made most important contribution to HK Taiji world, esp. Wu style. Many have this view.
However, when he fought and injured people back in his home village, he did come to HK to his uncle Cheng Wing Kwong , who recommended him to learn from wdk.
I still have with me, old folk K that practice with him in wdk's place at that moment. And when CTH was ambushed in Wanchai, Gooseneck Bridge, by sword painted black, this old folk visited in hospital. He is still alive and around.
also, when cth first started up, he had a difficult period, I have one other old folk L,who learn from him, in the afternoon in Argyle Street, and they went out to drink coffee as a custom ,only two of them, when they chatted ernestly. Those years, he got marriage problem and little students. he frankly told this old folk why he refused to accept he learned from the kam chuen Association openly...one simple word... it is market strategy.
And later, CTH made good achievement, one friend of mine, Y, was his team captain for fighting in Wanchai QE Stadium, that was time of Tong Chikin. CTH also told Y frankly about that he learned from WDK.
There are others who were with CTH in South China sports Assn, under WDK those years, they are in their 80-90s, and they are still active and healthy and available for yumcha with me now.
I know about this early since the 1950s, when CTH started up, got famous, teach the USD people, and then got the control of the HK USD parks. Not just hearsay.

Of all books of HKWu style, other than the gold book [ you can say better than the gold book] the best photo record of the wu form is CTH's yellow book. Any one who learns from WDK would know he was always saying 'SAAT YUNG' Practical. And this is the slogan of CTH at start up. CTH, WDK do look similar in approach and emphasis on short time training, simple approach, and throw/takedown skills.
There are few others with this , probably in Wu style all over the world,.....even
Shanghai Kamchuen, Beijing Wu style, and even the KamChuen under Wu kungyee.
over the world we now have those lineage like LeeShuk[ LeeJeungShut]-MokChi-YiHoo-LeeManCharn[mai sung Lee] , good in throw.....from WDK.
we also got DanDancherty in UK from CTH
their similarity? throw.

DOOR MAN, seems a downgrade word but actually learning from someone else and getting as good as the teacher or even better always happens.

蒙塵答道:

鄭天熊在九歲時,隨叔父鄭榮光到香港生活並學太極拳。上世紀四十年代中幫助

叔父在南華體育會教拳。1949年(19歲)自立門戶,在灣仔的一處天台作拳館。

他注重實戰訓練與及願教太極功。因此,一些久練拳架而不懂內功的,與及跟隨

其叔父的學生也轉投他的門下。在灣仔教拳十年,訓練出幾名打爛仔交的打仔,

也積蓄了一點小財富。

到60年代初,在九龍旺角亞皆老街買下一頂樓作住所暨拳館(現今的香港太極總

會)。在婚姻出現問題時,他休息了一小段時間。那時,學生都走到公園自練,

而不是少學生。他的善戰的學生,常為他招徠更多的學生。

看看吳家所教的散手,再看看鄭天熊所教的,當知其中有別。

_________________
YouSeeMe
琴棋書畫,改頭換面,過癮埋往後幾個寒暑,早抖;
刀槍劍棍,裝模作樣,風騷得至多三至五年,再見。
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-5-12 06:46:35 | 顯示全部樓層
Wutaiji2 寫道:

he frankly told this old folk why he refused to accept he learned from the kam chuen Association

openly...one simple word... it is market strategy.

蒙塵意譯:

他(鄭天熊)對這位老者坦白表示,他之所以拒絕公開承認在鑑泉拳社學拳的

原因是,簡而言之,市場戰略也!

-----------------------------------------------

蒙塵請教道:

鄭天熊開始自立門戶教拳時,衹是個19歲的青年,一點名氣也沒有。這位籍籍

無名的小伙子,連吳家的招牌也沒標榜,請問這是個什麼樣的市場戰略???

_________________
YouSeeMe
琴棋書畫,改頭換面,過癮埋往後幾個寒暑,早抖;
刀槍劍棍,裝模作樣,風騷得至多三至五年,再見。
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-5-12 06:47:10 | 顯示全部樓層
19歲由太極拳功法健身,發揮太極"拳擊"的應用,確實不簡單

參加西雅圖陶師鬆柔推手回來,無人探討或應用"擊"
這兩星期就近參與上海人"嚴或顏"師父的吳式推手團體,定步,身不太動,只用手掌面含人肘緩慢吃進或猛發或應發,但只用手掌面和身不動兩腳不能變換之推,無利於太極拳之擊,在快擊中周身漏洞太多,且不顧要害,此推手之弊,但適合養身和交友玩樂

拳式之用幾乎無可見, 此太過研推手之技"弊

我見     ......Fred Hao
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-5-12 06:47:51 | 顯示全部樓層
常聽人說鄭天熊曾跟吳大揆學拳,都以為是把 “一同練拳” 當作是 “學拳” 的誤會。

今天再細看 wutaiji2 的文章,才知有人言之鑿鑿,並說鄭跟吳學了一段很長的時間

(原文: Master Chen Tin Hung did learn for significant time from wu dai kwai )。

請看看以下的年序表:

1938年
吳鑑泉收鄭榮光為入室弟子。

同年,鄭天熊到香港投靠叔父鄭榮光並學太極拳。

1941年
香港淪陷,鄭天熊回鄉避戰禍。鄭榮光回鄉數月又重返香港。

1945年
和平後,鄭天熊再到香港投靠叔父鄭榮光。


1946年


齊敏軒到香港,經趙壽川(吳鑑泉外甥)介紹寄住鄭榮光處。

鄭天熊得此機緣,跟齊敏軒學搏擊並學全了24式太極功,與

及一種道家的吐納術。

1948年

吳公儀帶同吳大揆到香港。

同年年底開始,鄭天熊在香港銅鑼灣教拳。(前文記錯是灣仔。)直至

60年代初遷往九龍旺角。


從以上年序表看,鄭天熊在什麼時候曾跟吳大揆 “學了一段很長的時間” 呢???

_________________
YouSeeMe
琴棋書畫,改頭換面,過癮埋往後幾個寒暑,早抖;
刀槍劍棍,裝模作樣,風騷得至多三至五年,再見。
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-7-28 17:42:53 | 顯示全部樓層
說來聊聊

這位吳氐的顏師父兼修氣功, 可偵測我和Kevin 的內氣, 說Kevin 的肺臟不好,
他有位洋弟子Harry,氣更長,其可感應到美東紐約那麼遠,據說有另一套修練法,
又言,我的氣比Harry 還長, 問我可以放到多遠, 我則笑到拿劍時到劍尖, 又叫
Harry 內視我的氣, 說可感應到我任督及所有經絡皆通, 可我對他兩沒感覺,我
只知自己內裏是怎回事


......Fred Hao
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-7-28 17:43:18 | 顯示全部樓層
鄭天熊,從一個籍籍無名的小伙子開始教拳;從打架,到打擂台,直至訓練出一班善戰的拳手,衹靠實力去打天下。從不依靠家派或名家來給自己壯聲勢。

吳家的一些不肖弟子,有名家為靠山,不好好地練出好身手,卻生安白造的創製謊言,利用鄭天熊的成就來為自己壯聲勢。

蒙塵之見

_________________
YouSeeMe
琴棋書畫,改頭換面,過癮埋往後幾個寒暑,早抖;
刀槍劍棍,裝模作樣,風騷得至多三至五年,再見。
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-7-28 17:43:54 | 顯示全部樓層
Wutaiji2 寫道:

…...此校 (喇沙書院)武風極盛,同學之間、習武、講手非常普遍。畢業生中較有

名者如陳欣建等。亦有不少習武同學,包括一位習詠春又當拍戲的同學,其後這位

同學留學美國,潛心苦練,終於成材,他就是一代功夫之王的李小龍。

-----------------------------


蒙塵答道:

李小龍並不是喇沙書院的畢業生。他在該校讀完 Form 1(中一,1956)便離校,

轉讀聖方濟書院。據說他18歲時離開香港赴美國。此說正確的話,他在聖方濟也

沒畢業便離港赴美。(香港在50年代前,至60年代初,很多超齡學生。)


他在喇沙書院時還不懂詠春拳。這點蒙塵可以很肯定。

下圖是李小龍在喇沙書院最後一年的班級合照
………………



後排左起第8人是李小龍。攝於1956年五月。

_________________
YouSeeMe
琴棋書畫,改頭換面,過癮埋往後幾個寒暑,早抖;
刀槍劍棍,裝模作樣,風騷得至多三至五年,再見。
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-7-28 17:44:17 | 顯示全部樓層
Sorry, Bruce Lee Knew, at least, some Wing Chun during his La Salle days. He showed off his Wing Chun from time to time in school. It was true that he left La Salle after Form 1. I was his classmate at La Salle but stayed on until finishing Form 6.

Chan
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-7-28 17:44:45 | 顯示全部樓層
Chan 寫道:

Sorry, Bruce Lee Knew, at least, some Wing Chun during his La Salle days. He showed off his

Wing Chun from time to time in school. It was true that he left La Salle after Form 1. I was his

classmate at La Salle but stayed on until finishing Form 6.

-----------------------------


蒙塵答道:



如此說來,他是學了點詠春拳而不會用了。蒙塵之所以肯定他不懂詠春,是因為

曾跟他交過手之故。時為1956年春夏間。



大合照中排左起第6人,看來馴良可欺,患近視而不戴眼鏡的小子,就是少年蒙塵。

陳兄也在照片中嗎?

_________________
YouSeeMe
琴棋書畫,改頭換面,過癮埋往後幾個寒暑,早抖;
刀槍劍棍,裝模作樣,風騷得至多三至五年,再見。
 樓主| 海大富 發表於 2011-7-28 17:45:16 | 顯示全部樓層
Glad to know you. The group photo was for Form 1C and I was in Form 1B.


........Chan
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