吳式太極專題: 吳家太極拳在香港的傳播, 拳式功理法討論

多謝先生的資料。不知wutaiji2 先生可知鄭天熊所傳太極功與吳家所傳是否有別,已在下所知太極功在楊家一正傳到第五代,但近二十年只有吳(鄭)糸有公開傳受。

.....  Vincent

Vincent 寫到:

多謝先生的資料。不知wutaiji2 先生可知鄭天熊所傳太極功與吳家所傳是否有別,已在下所知太極功在楊家一正傳到第五代,但近二十年只有吳(鄭)糸有公開傳受。

如果能用中文解釋一次就更好！

據了解原本是沒有陰陽兩段的，只有太極功之名，即只有陰段。
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看似有象而無象

想澄清一下, 鄭天熊在1957年的臺灣擂臺大賽上是沒有奪標, 鄭師的最後一場比賽以點數擊敗臺灣三屆冠軍余文通, 余師是當年總冠軍大熱門, 鄭師賽後因傷沒有繼續比賽。當年奪得重量級季軍的是同門的胡勝老師。

.......   Vincent

chisang =黐身? HoiSang=開身?

......  Vincent

Vincent 寫到:

chisang =黐身? HoiSang=開身?

yes   ........wutaiji2

樹影 寫到:

Vincent 寫到: 多謝先生的資料。不知wutaiji2 先生可知鄭天熊所傳太極功與吳家所傳是否有別,已在下所知太極功在楊家一正傳到第五代,但近二十年只有吳(鄭)糸有公開傳受。 如果能用中文解釋一次就更好！ 據了解原本是沒有陰陽兩段的，只有太極功之名，即只有陰段。

a blog from Yan Zi Yuan...of MYL line of shanghai.
----------------------------
rom 1993 to 1996 I invested in a medicine production plant in China and was made a General Manager of the plant. For those three years as I lived in China, Master Ma further taught me Wu Style Taiji inner transmission methods and its secrets. He was around 94 or 95 years of age. I was always invited to lunches or dinners with both Masters(often in 2nd floor where they had bed and table in the big room and where only very close people would be invited there).

One day Master Wu related to me that there was another set of Nei Gong called “Yin Yang 24 Methods”(also called "taiji gong"). Due to both Masters being busy making a living, they had forgotten it. Master Ma’s martial brother and brother-in-laws Yu Sheng was also taught by Master Wu Jian Quan this very set. In the 60’s Master Wu requested Yu Sheng to teach Ma Jiang Bao, but was only met with rejections. Until Yu Sheng passed away no one had been taught that Nei Gong set. Master Wu felt very disappointed about this.

I have heard that while Master Wu Jian Quan was in Hong Kong he had taught this set to Master Cheng Yong Guang. It was then transmitted to Cheng Tin Hung (Master Cheng Guang Yong’s nephew. Cheng Tin Hung also learned it from Qi Ming Xuan whom was Qi Ke Chen’s son). The only difference is that they have renamed the set as “Taiji Gong”.

...... wutaiji2

I then expressed my wish to go to Hong Kong to learn this set and hence completing the entire Wu Style Taiji system.

At the end of 1995, I was in Hong Kong. It was in Guang Dong Zhong Shan Taiji Shan Village I finally got the opportunity to meet Master Cheng Tin Hung . Master Cheng knew my background in Taiji, and he was happy to teach me “Yin Yang 24 Methods” (Yin 12 methods and Yang 12 methods).
----------------------------------
Yan has published a book on Wu style, and had a fight with Professor Yu of Beijing Wu Tunan lineage.

wutaiji2 寫到:

樹影 寫到: Vincent 寫到: 多謝先生的資料。不知wutaiji2 先生可知鄭天熊所傳太極功與吳家所傳是否有別,已在下所知太極功在楊家一正傳到第五代,但近二十年只有吳(鄭)糸有公開傳受。 如果能用中文解釋一次就更好！ 據了解原本是沒有陰陽兩段的，只有太極功之名，即只有陰段。 a blog from Yan Zi Yuan...of MYL line of shanghai. ---------------------------- rom 1993 to 1996 I invested in a medicine production plant in China and was made a General Manager of the plant. For those three years as I lived in China, Master Ma further taught me Wu Style Taiji inner transmission methods and its secrets. He was around 94 or 95 years of age. I was always invited to lunches or dinners with both Masters(often in 2nd floor where they had bed and table in the big room and where only very close people would be invited there). One day Master Wu related to me that there was another set of Nei Gong called “Yin Yang 24 Methods”(also called "taiji gong"). Due to both Masters being busy making a living, they had forgotten it. Master Ma’s martial brother and brother-in-laws Yu Sheng was also taught by Master Wu Jian Quan this very set. In the 60’s Master Wu requested Yu Sheng to teach Ma Jiang Bao, but was only met with rejections. Until Yu Sheng passed away no one had been taught that Nei Gong set. Master Wu felt very disappointed about this. I have heard that while Master Wu Jian Quan was in Hong Kong he had taught this set to Master Cheng Yong Guang. It was then transmitted to Cheng Tin Hung (Master Cheng Guang Yong’s nephew. Cheng Tin Hung also learned it from Qi Ming Xuan whom was Qi Ke Chen’s son). The only difference is that they have renamed the set as “Taiji Gong”. I then expressed my wish to go to Hong Kong to learn this set and hence completing the entire Wu Style Taiji system. At the end of 1995, I was in Hong Kong. It was in Guang Dong Zhong Shan Taiji Shan Village I finally got the opportunity to meet Master Cheng Tin Hung . Master Cheng knew my background in Taiji, and he was happy to teach me “Yin Yang 24 Methods” (Yin 12 methods and Yang 12 methods). ---------------------------------- Yan has published a book on Wu style, and had a fight with Professor Yu of Beijing Wu Tunan lineage.

上文中提及之Yan Zi Yuan, 應是顏紫元先生.
Professor Yu of Beijing Wu Tunan lineage, 大概是說于志鈞先生.

補充一下, 于志鈞先生雖自稱是吳圖南先生的傳人, 但據吳圖南先生在世的弟子門人, 俱不承認, 隨吳圖南先生多年的人也未曾見過于志鈞先生. 而于志鈞先生本身也不懂吳圖南先生的太極功, 太極用架等, 所以說于志鈞先生是Wu Tunan lineage,
值得商榷.

Vincent說"在下所知太極功在楊家一正傳到第五代,但近二十年只有吳(鄭)糸有公開傳受。"

除wutaiji2先生的資料外, 太極功是很多門內都有的, 也不止24式. 如吳家, 上海的一些吳鑑泉尚有類似24式的太極功, 馬系也有24式以外的太極內功功法. 北方王荗齋一系(全佑之徒)尚有很多太極內功功法, 包括打坐.
而吳圖南一系, 太極功又分成鬆功, 勁功, 氣功等. 其中"龜背調息"等勢, 外形與吳家24式中金龜式外形類似.
楊家中不分傳承中也有很多不同的太極功, 如田兆麟一系的八段錦(拔鍛筋), 其中也有與吳家24式中金龜式, 吳圖南一系龜背調息外形類似的動作.
再如武家, 李瑞東一系等... 都有不同的太極功.

只因昔時太極功多是秘傳, 知者甚少而已.

一點淺見.     ......太癡

太極門的功法有很多站,坐,臥等。秘傳是老生常談, 不公開傳受亦無人得之真偽。但真正掌握功法要義理應達到訓練目的(如抗打),以在下所知楊吳(鄭)真傳是能在三個月左右達到一定的指標。就像body building, 動作多少不重要, as long as they work. 但現今香港除吳(鄭)糸好像沒有其他流派能做到。

.......   Vincent

Vincent 寫到:

太極門的功法有很多站,坐,臥等。秘傳是老生常談, 不公開傳受亦無人得之真偽。但真正掌握功法要義理應達到訓練目的(如抗打),以在下所知楊吳(鄭)真傳是能在三個月左右達到一定的指標。就像body building, 動作多少不重要, as long as they work. 但現今香港除吳(鄭)糸好像沒有其他流派能做到。

雖然說是秘傳，但學過的人也不少，代代相傳最主要的原因是不能出錯！
三個月的時間可以有基礎，但絕未可以抗打，與其說太極功的訓練目的之一是抗打，倒不如說是能量的充沛感，抗打是一個副產品，但實際應用我可以說，對著如賣老大哥這些高手，只有死得更慘。
我將這套功法，給一位廣州的中醫師看過，這位醫師家學淵源，從小就是武術高手，更同時修習金鐘罩和易筋經，對內氣和抗打功法有十分深之研究。他說太極功陰陽廿四式是極之霸道的功法，如果丹田氣未成而練，好容易走火或內傷，而且行功不能太急，呼吸和運式之間一定要協調，所以最好有太極拳盤架的基礎，或者先修習八段錦，待身體適應了才開始練習，而且不能急於求成，三個月四式就差不多，用一年時間將陰段鞏固，能感到丹田氣受外力攻擊而不散時，就可以開始練陽段。
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看似有象而無象

明白亦同意樹兄看法,"能量的充沛感"=加速新陳代謝+速進血液循環+帶氧+肌力。以在下所知澄甫公後期入室弟子的訓練體糸亦以太極功為核心。明白功法的意義對大鬆大柔的拳架在訓練體糸中的作用就比較清楚了。當然這不能排除有其他的訓練體糸形式。

.......   Vincent